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Chat about horses, racing, and the industry.
Beckron wrote:Here's some facts from The Jockey Club
1991 Mares Bred
2006 Mares Bred
While Kentucky and Florida went up, California declined a whopping 33%
definitely does not help the cal bred races, but what about all the alw horses, mid to high level claimers, straight mdns, and high class stake horses. That level of ownership is flat out going extinct.
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:17 am
This is my first post too,and I actually didn`t know this forum was here until I stumbled on it.I am posting this not to rag on Zen,but on the plastic track.The track SUCKS!Anyone who disagrees is only someone who has a horse who doesn`t run a lick on grass or dirt,but loves plastic.It is so obvious as to the injuries seen in both racing and training this year.And anyone who knows how a horse moves and pays attention in the padock and post can see that even Zenyatta looks sore in the rear,but she seems to warms out of it.The only problem with that is that as she gets older and more races,she will end up more and more sore,and warm up less and less out of it.She runs in so cal because these are her friends....no one competes with her,and the good ones,or one(RA)in this case won`t even try the plastic.Do you blame them?I wouldn`t run my horse on an unknown surface and get
n away.Too many top caliber horses have thrown a dud on the plastic.Think about it.Zenyatta has alot of beyers in the 103-104 and a couple 108 from last year.The closest beyer in this field she beat(Barely)was her own stablemate that has two beyers over a 100.The horses in California are so weak,as I remember as close as 3 or 4 years back that a good grade 1 would have all the horses with beyers over a 100,and several in the 108 and up.I have watched every race this year at Del Mar,and as a handicapper,there is no ryhme or reason for anything that is happening as far as finding a trend.But there is hope!Don`t forget Friday night when Terry Knight brings a horse that won for 16,000 on the dirt at pleasanton,and runs him on the plastic in an allowance race,and wires the field.I don`t know about most handicappers,but anyone who figures that the horse would move up here on the plastic had to be smokin somethin.
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:50 pm
Dont want to quote your whole post but do you think any of us like what this legislation has brought to us. No one discussed it, no one studied it in earnest, someone said this will be good for the people, rushed it through, and now its bad legislation. Sound familiar?
This was a horrible decision and it wont surprise me to see it changed very soon.
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:17 am
I wonder what the real goal is for Zeyatta -- to win the BC Classic or retire undeated like Personal Ensign.
Zenyatta is now 12 for 12. A win in the Lady's Secret would tie her with Personal Ensign. To keep her undefeated record intact, and to surpass Personal Ensign, Zenyatta will have to win her BC race.
Will her connections risk it by running her in the Classic? Regardless of how the US handicap division looks this year, you can't discount the Euro turf monsters, who can close like and freight train and who are relishing another opportunity to run on that track.
What do people think? I'm sure she will be entered in both, but where will she end up -- Ladies' Classic or BC Classic for Zenyatta?
I bet on a horse at ten-to-one. It didn't come in until half-past five.
My horse was so late getting home, he tiptoed into the stable.
~ Henny Youngman
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:20 pm
Dirty hat has said more than once Zenyatta is not going in the BC...She wouldnt even take on the boys in the Gold Cup.
Its pretty obvious what their goal is, its to break Personal Ensign's record. I would hate to see their jellyspine campaign ruined by losing in the Ladies classic.
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- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:44 pm
Great thread/post by Fredo, and concur w/Dgstan on Husker's post. Great contribution to the discussion, strong opinions to be sure.
Zen's recent races are all the same, she imposes her physical advantages over smaller, weaker horses. It's like groundhogs day.
For those who choose to criticize Rachel's opponents, you better realize Zenyatta isn't exactly facing Murderer's Row, either. Who is Anabaa's Creation? Slow fractions/bad post, I get it, but if you want legendary status, you might want to beat that one by more than a desperate nose.
Zenyatta is a great horse, owned by great people. But she has reached her peak, where as Rachel is continuing to reach higher and higher w/every trip to the post.
I think Zen's connections want to keep her unbeaten far more than they want to challenge her, at this point, against the males, or god forbid, Rachel. Rachel is only going to get better, so every day these two don't meet, it's advantage Rachel.
- Posts: 320
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:26 am
So, in summary, if I understand it all -
Zen is a nobody because she won't run against males,
Rachel ran against males but she is a nobody because it's the weakest 3-YO colt group in recorded history,
Zen COULD be somebody if she ran against Rachel because Rachel beat nobodys (that one gets me),
Zen's connections wanting an undefeated career for her is silly, although everyone seems to know that Personal Ensign has that record,
Personal Ensign never ran against males, but she beat Winning Colors by a lip in the BC, and Winning Colors beat males in the Derby,
so Winning Colors is the better horse, although - throw out Forty Niner and Risen Star - and that could have been the 2nd worse 3-YO crop ever.
What did I miss?
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- Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:49 pm
- Location: Cricket Flat, Nevada
This is where if I were NTRA Commissioner, everyone would have to abide by a "Best Interests of the Sport" clause, which would include the Commissioner in some cases mandating horses meet in certain cases. In this case, if I had such a clause, I would use it to compell the Mosses and Shireffs "In the best interests of the sport" to face Rachel and the boys in the Jockey Club Gold Cup at Belmont or a similar race elsewhere in early October if Shireffs doesn't want to deal with the Detention barn in New York under a "Commisssioner's Order." That may be the only way to get the general public the matchups they want to see.
Gordongarlic wrote:I'm sure the Mosses are nice people, Shirreffs is a good trainer and it's tough for some to call them out. But I'll do it anyway: now that they've acknowledged Zenyatta will not run in the Pacific Classic, the campaign they've chosen this season is not in the best interest of horse racing. You can say whatever you want about how an owner can do what they wish with their particular horse, but the Mosses got involved with a sport that is fueled by the fans and bettors, and it's in our best interest to see Zenyatta challenged at the highest level. Like I've said many times, she already did the same stuff last year, so what the heck is she proving by winning the same races? Seriously, it's like a great hitter hitting .400 in triple-A... only to avoid the big leagues the next season and hitting .400 again in the minors. Zenyatta's current campaign is without imagination and the only drama is whether she (or her jockey) will mess up enough to get her beat. It's obvious to anyone with an IQ over 50 that she's a million times better than these west coast female horses. Why in God's name does she continue to beat up on these females when the males beckon? We all know she can beat them, and wouldn't it be so, so, so much more fun if she tried? And then, on top of all that, there's actually a possibility that she and Rachel Alexandra will not meet? This situation is so moronic I don't even know why I waste my time writing about it. Zenyatta's handlers should be called out by all the major turf writers, blogs, casual racing fans etc. for their selfishness in not challenging Zenyatta at the highest level where she belongs. All racing fans want to see her take on the boys and, especially, Rachel Alexandra.
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:00 pm
Very true, especially with the state of the economy in California and the cost of living there.
GMB wrote:I hear people blaming synthetics for the state of california racing and I think that is a cop out. Racing in socal has been going down hill for at least a decade. The problem is that the middle of the road owner has gotten squeezed out of the state. I dont want this to be a political post but there are obvious reasons. Those owners who could own 5-10 horses, some decent class, some cheap, or no longer in the game and many no longer in the state.
You also for instance have many more options if you for instance based at Philadelphia Park right now, as you can race there (with its slots-fueled purses) or at Penn National or Delaware (also with slots-fueled purses) or Monmouth, Saratoga, Laurel, Presque Isle or Mountaineer all within a few hours van ride from Philly. The purses in the entire region are big (except for Maryland), and you can be more strategic in where you place horses.
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:00 pm
Kermit, don't mean to nitpick but Personal Ensign did beat males in the Whitney. Granted, it was only two. It was such an important event that everyone forgets it and remembers her win over the f&m in the breeders' Cup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-y2YgXgQYI
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- Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:45 pm
- Location: Daytona Beach, Florida
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