Gryder and Solis spill in DMR 10th (Aug 9th)

[Ancient Title]

I agree with not taking a horse out that is not 100%. But if horses did not go out because they had an issue hear and there, there would be no racing. Most horses like humans have soreness or issues. There are even good horses that change the oil in the ankle and knees in order to run big. I am not saying all horses have soreness, etc...But a large amount due.
no owner or trainer wants to see their horse break down and die on the track..It is not good PR for anyone...

And there's the problem.

It's been mentioned before, and I'll say it again. This horse was FOR SALE - CHEAP! There was a problem - period.

You'd have to be blind to not see that there was an issue with the huge drop, and it was even mentioned on pre-race analysis on TVG. Granted, it was during a conversation on pick 4 choices - but the tone was why include a horse on your ticket that is unlikely to finish (figuratively or figuratively).

I've seen this more often than should ever be permitted in racing.

That being said, there was a thread about Dave's Revenge, and much concern about that horse starting again at Del Mar. DR won next out and was claimed by Miller. However, I'm not so sure if that is good or not. Not fond of DR's new connections sending their charges down river. Time will tell.

[Srotagtbs]

I did say 'established' jockeys. If you are already a millionaire you should be just a little more selective. More likely the trainer gives the jock a lot of decent mounts and he didn't want to say no to a horse that the connections probably have spent $200,000 on and is dropped into a $25K claiming race.

So Tom Brady shouldn't take snaps on 3rd Down and 7 or longer because he's already one of the best NFL QB's? He should take of certain plays because he's already a millionaire and 3 time Super Bowl Champ?? That's garbage and to say less established jockeys should be on more of the suspect horses is absolutely ludicrous. No jockey regardless of how popular, experienced, or "established" they are should be on a mount like the one Solis was on Sunday.

The reason all of this happened?? Because the trainer knew something was wrong and still ran it. I know it happens everyday that a horse is dropped like this and make it back, but why have track vets if they don't see things like this? The horse did have some issues last race, did the vet not notice it? Shame on the trainer for still running this horse when something was clearly wrong. That is carelessness at it's worst. Again it happens everyday and shame on every trainer who knows that the horse isn't right and still runs it.

[Bellsbendboy]

It is always sad when a horse breaks down but to imply the trainer "knew" is without merit.

Suppose this was your horse, what race would you have run in ?

What would you have done differently ?

Lastly, EVERY horse is checked by the state vet the morning of the race.

BBB

[Kermit]

That's garbage and to say less established jockeys should be on more of the suspect horses is absolutely ludicrous.

??? I didn't say that at all. I'm saying the established jockeys can say "no" more than a new jockey trying to hustle rides. I don't want any of them to ride a suspect horse.
Example: J. C. Gonzalas, the day he was killed, had already refused to ride a horse. He told another jockey that the horse (who broke down) wasn't right either, but he didn't
want to turn down two on one card, so he died. Gary Stevens would have refused to ride it. That's the realities they live with. Not my call.

[TheGoodWitch]

Unless Lisa Lewis' training ethos and horsemanship has changed drastically since I was last around her (about five years ago) there is NO FREAKIN WAY she would run a horse she knew was damaged goods.

[Srotagtbs]

That's garbage and to say less established jockeys should be on more of the suspect horses is absolutely ludicrous.

??? I didn't say that at all. I'm saying the established jockeys can say "no" more than a new jockey trying to hustle rides. I don't want any of them to ride a suspect horse.
Example: J. C. Gonzalas, the day he was killed, had already refused to ride a horse. He told another jockey that the horse (who broke down) wasn't right either, but he didn't
want to turn down two on one card, so he died. Gary Stevens would have refused to ride it. That's the realities they live with. Not my call.

All right now I got your viewpoint. Just misinterpreted it wrong.

[Srotagtbs]

It is always sad when a horse breaks down but to imply the trainer "knew" is without merit.

Suppose this was your horse, what race would you have run in ?

What would you have done differently ?

Lastly, EVERY horse is checked by the state vet the morning of the race.

BBB

What race would I have run in? I'd try a MSW again because the horse only had 1 start. It's not like the horse was 0 fer 20.

What would I have done differently? Not give up on the horse after 1 race. That massive drop in class signals something isn't right.

I STILL stand by my statement that something was wrong with the horse, but whether or not it contributed to the breakdown, who knows?? You don't buy a horse for $95K and then give up on the horse after 1 race unless you like massive negative return on investments. Where there's smoke...

[Bellsbendboy]

SROTAGTBS

You are entitled to your opinion and I hold no malice for you, but your comments indicate that you are relatively new to training/handicapping.

I posted what race? You replied Md sp wt. There was one in the book (Star Redeemer).

But the horse was SIXTY to one, showed little and CLEARLY needed a drop.

Ask yourself, "If Endless Moon was entered for maiden claiming 80K, would you suspect something was wrong with the horse ?? What about maiden 50K ?

Your comment that the horse was taking a "massive" drop in class is accurate in theory, but 'cappers deal in reality. There are very few races carded between straight maiden and the bottom, and NONE for book two. As it was for this race six were excluded.

Your contention that the trainer "knew" something was wrong indicates more naivety on your part and is disturbing. This particular trainer is EXTREMELY good with her stock. After the maiden she gave the horse some time, a maintenance work thirteen days out, then put Alex up for a solid half mile spin July 28th. She "did not give up on the horse" she ran it where it belonged. BBB

[Srotagtbs]

SROTAGTBS

You are entitled to your opinion and I hold no malice for you, but your comments indicate that you are relatively new to training/handicapping.

I posted what race? You replied Md sp wt. There was one in the book (Star Redeemer).

But the horse was SIXTY to one, showed little and CLEARLY needed a drop.

Ask yourself, "If Endless Moon was entered for maiden claiming 80K, would you suspect something was wrong with the horse ?? What about maiden 50K ?

Your comment that the horse was taking a "massive" drop in class is accurate in theory, but 'cappers deal in reality. There are very few races carded between straight maiden and the bottom, and NONE for book two. As it was for this race six were excluded.

Your contention that the trainer "knew" something was wrong indicates more naivety on your part and is disturbing. This particular trainer is EXTREMELY good with her stock. After the maiden she gave the horse some time, a maintenance work thirteen days out, then put Alex up for a solid half mile spin July 28th. She "did not give up on the horse" she ran it where it belonged. BBB

Clearly needed a drop? After 1 race you, Lisa Lewis, and apparently 95% of everyone else thought this horse had no future in MSW? Why not keep the horse in a MSW, but try a variety of things like sprinting on Poly or try routing on Turf and/or Poly, adding blinkers or lasix (if the horse wasn't already on it). After 1 race she knew this horse would have zero effect doing ANY of that? Did she figure the horse didn't need any more races to get into shape? I guess I wasn't born with the "1 time is all I need to know everything there is to know" perspective...

You did say the debut was difficult to gauge, but why not give the horse the benefit of the doubt? Was there pressure from the owners to run this horse?

As for the drop in class itself, I wouldn't think much of it was down to $80K, but anymore than that makes me think Why? Again, it's not like this horse had a number of races where it was ineffective at the MSW ranks, it was 1 race. After 1 race why such a massive drop?

I just have a hard time accepting the fact that 1 time is enough of a barometer to gauge a horse. It's just hard for me to believe that the only reason the horse was in that spot was because it was a more realistic spot.