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West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Beckron » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:54 am

Risen Star wrote:He doesn't need mud, he needs a steady jockey. Win, lose, or draw, he deserves his own jockey not Calvin for this race, Mike for that race, then Calvin again, then Mike again, and always having to play second string to some other horse. I'm not blaming these riders, but I hate these circumstances.

At least when MTB goes into the Travers, he'll have the rare privilege of being under the same rider for two races in a row. Wow!


His breeding indictes he will be exceptional in the mud and he was. I did win on him in the Derby and picked him strictly because of the mud. I'm not just throwing that out, I believe it. MTB had every chance to win that race yesterday and he didn't do it, the winner came from off the pace. The pace was hot. We'll see what he does next but at some point excuses need to stop being made and jockeys blamed, he's on a three race skid now.

Very talented horses don't need same jockeys look at Candy Ride in the PC and Sunday Silence in the BC as the greatest of these examples. Each had tremendous foes to beat with new pilots. Heck look at the winner of the race yesterday, he picked up the mount yesterday.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Stephenlb » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:15 am

Have anyone of you guys heard of Prep race..Needing one after the layoff...This horse is not a fraud..again losing to the best horse on the planet in RA then if that is a fraud we all would love to own the fraud MTB. He crushed a field in the derby, if you want to call it a bad field go ahead, but he showed up in the Preakness as well.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Knoxville8 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:02 pm

No disrespect to Mike Smith. I know he is a Hall of famer but this horse just doesnt fit Mike's style. I know he can adapt to whatever he rides and we have seen him win on closers before I just think this horse needs a very patient rider. I just think Mike's strengths are more on the lead than closing. For ex: This horse needs a rider such as Alex Solis. No rider show more patience than Solis. I know he will be wide in the stretch but Mike has riden him wide each time. IMOP he hasnt lost each of those races because he was wide I believe Mike has moved to soon each time. Bottom line, MTB needs a more patient rider. Thats my opinion any way.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby GMB » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:41 pm

Knoxville8 wrote: I believe Mike has moved to soon each time.


I have no idea how he could have moved any later than he did in the preakness. MTB needs to be better than fourteen and change. The problem is people think this horse is any good, he is average, perfect trips are rare, when he gets one against the right class and setup he can win.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Fredo » Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:52 pm

For some reason people are taking each of our opinions as a personal attack. That is not the case imho. I have great friends and we disagree on horses all the time. And we do not take it personal. Hell to this day I have a friend in NY who thinks EG s away SS. Its a running joke between us. The time of the WV Derby was very slow, and the competition was below par at best.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Beckron » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:50 pm

Knoxville8 wrote:No disrespect to Mike Smith. I know he is a Hall of famer but this horse just doesnt fit Mike's style. I know he can adapt to whatever he rides and we have seen him win on closers before I just think this horse needs a very patient rider. I just think Mike's strengths are more on the lead than closing. For ex: This horse needs a rider such as Alex Solis. No rider show more patience than Solis. I know he will be wide in the stretch but Mike has riden him wide each time. IMOP he hasnt lost each of those races because he was wide I believe Mike has moved to soon each time. Bottom line, MTB needs a more patient rider. Thats my opinion any way.



You might want to take a look at Zenyatta's races. If he were anymore patient he would stop and get a drink.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Masterp » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:24 pm

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/August/02/On-to-Travers-for-Mine-That-Bird.aspx

Didn't take long for the connections to make up their mind. Mine that Bird to Travers.
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Re: West Virginia Derby Thoughts?

Postby Wilsonvandal » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Masterp wrote:http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/racing-news/2009/August/02/On-to-Travers-for-Mine-That-Bird.aspx

Didn't take long for the connections to make up their mind. Mine that Bird to Travers.


Interesting statements by Mr. Mike Smith...admitting rider error...

I am not giving up on MTB quite yet - I think I can forgive the 3rd place finish given the significant amount of weight he gave away to the field; and, the pace scenario in the race. It's a lot to ask for a horse to give away those pounds at that distance and change his running style...

His Belmont was not horrible either. Sure he's hung his last two starts - but, the 1 1/2 @ Belmont tests a lot of potentially great horses...and, the pace scenario and changing the running style was his undoing in the WV Derby.

My opinion - he's better than what most people give him credit for...nevertheless, he'll suffer the same criticism Giacomo endured his entire career. MTB is small, comes from unknown connections and lesser known tracks...and, suffered the worst fate of all in winning the Kentucky Derby - long odds! I think his race in the Preakness and running that close to Rachel Alexandra legitimizes this horse.

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