STAND BY. BREAKING NEWS.

[PeteMo]

I was approached to buy a share in Goof. LRF bought 50% for $30k and marked it up $20k to $50k. Seems fairly reasonable, and I almost did it. I always wanted to buy into a John Harris CA bred. But I dont know John. How else could I have done this without LRF? Same with the Unusual Heat horses. Auerbach only sells to a select few and LRF is one of them. That Hot n Dusty made $350k for LRF/Auerbach. I dont like markups either, but clearly they get certain horses no one else can. Someone told me LRF has 300 active clients, many who own horses on their own. Obviously, those people dont need LRF so they must be doing something right.

100,000 for a Lucky JH is INSANE. Lets just take the numbers you are using as reality, if they are accurate, the 60K valuation was already very very high, there should not be any room to mark up again off that number unless the horse has already been training like a CA bred stakes horse. If you are buying in at 100K on this horse as a yearling you have taken the worst of it. For 100K you can go to Keeneland and get a super nice prospect. There are many other ways to go at a 100K valuation vs a Lucky JH.

[Vince P]

I was approached to buy a share in Goof. LRF bought 50% for $30k and marked it up $20k to $50k. Seems fairly reasonable, and I almost did it. I always wanted to buy into a John Harris CA bred. But I dont know John. How else could I have done this without LRF? Same with the Unusual Heat horses. Auerbach only sells to a select few and LRF is one of them. That Hot n Dusty made $350k for LRF/Auerbach. I dont like markups either, but clearly they get certain horses no one else can. Someone told me LRF has 300 active clients, many who own horses on their own. Obviously, those people dont need LRF so they must be doing something right.

Welcome aboard Dodger89...I like your handle, but why not Dodger88?

Vince P

[Dodger89]

Thanks, Vance. 89 has meaning to me. I knew a guy who was offered a share in LRF's Hot n Dusty (CA Bred). $50k, marked up to $100k. At same time he was offered another horse (diff partnership group) recently purchased at a sale for $100k, marked up to $110k. He chose the $110k horse based mostly on lower mark up and perceived higher value. $110k horse never ran. Hot n Dusty earned over $350k and sold at KEE NOV.

Guys, why do mark ups matter? Who cares how much they buy their horses for? I judge LRF and West Point etc on their final price and if the horse performs to that price. Whether they buy the horse for $1 is irrelevant. I heard someone say "well I could've bought the horse at the sale for $12k". Actually no, you couldn't. Cause you weren't there. Even if you hired a bloodstock guy, how do you know that guy would've found THAT horse. And if he did, how do you know West Point doesn't bid $13k, $14k?

I don't like mark ups just like everyone else. But Goof is about to run. Someone has 3 years of training and expenses in him. Only 50% of CA Breds born ever make it to the track. Harris and LRF took all the risk and the expense and allowed me to buy in weeks before a debut. If you think you can find that anywhere else, for less, please let me know.

Remember, a Lucky JH may not fetch $100k at a sale, but we are one year past the sale... with $50k in expenses in him.

[PeteMo]

That's different... if the prices are weeks before a race. Once a horse has shown he can withstand early training and even better workout, he can be worth far more (far less if he cant hold up to the added rigors) If a group buys a yearling for 75K, then sells it the next week for 175k, and the horse has done nothing but get off the van from the sale you are a fool for paying that (I have been that fool in the past), If the horse is the 1 in a 100 horse that does well financially thats not the point. To sit and talk about Hot and Dusty is irrelevant, if you want to do that you have to look at the other 200 horses that have been sold along with her...and its obviously not a pretty picture. Peter Miller bought Heir Kitty last year at the training sales for 30K or so. He brought her back to his barn and 3 people bought in for 1/3 each. She was sold at Del Mar for a nice profit.. There were no markups, you can find these deals with certain trainers all day long. Trainers want horses and will try to put something together to bring in owners.

[Dodger89]

Pete Mo, how do you know Miller didn't make a deal at the sale with the seller at $15k. I'm sure he knew he had three potential buyers at $10k each. Maybe he found the horse and bid it up to $30k? I'm not saying Pete did this, but it happens ALL THE TIME.

$75k to $175k seems high on its face. But sales prices are the biggest frauds around. We have no idea why the horse ONLY sold for $75k. Just because the under bidders stopped doesn't mean the horse is only worth $75k. He may be worth LESS or MORE. It's just on that day, at that time, with those 25 buyers in attendance that he was went for $75k. Clearly I'll Have Another was worth more than $35k the day after Dennis O'Neill stole him from the OBS APR 2011 sale.

LRF bought Singletary for $5k, marked it up and the horse earned over $2m. West Point bought Awesome Gem for $200k, marked it up the next day to $400k and the horse earned $2.8m. Yes both outfits have losers, but so does Pegram, Jay Em Ess, etc. They all lose money, but you pray for the 5% that don't. LRF, and WP and others seem to hit that 5% mark.

[DegenerationX]

LRF is scam led by Billy Koch .

[PeteMo]

Pete Mo, how do you know Miller didn't make a deal at the sale with the seller at $15k. I'm sure he knew he had three potential buyers at $10k each. Maybe he found the horse and bid it up to $30k? I'm not saying Pete did this, but it happens ALL THE TIME.

$75k to $175k seems high on its face. But sales prices are the biggest frauds around. We have no idea why the horse ONLY sold for $75k. Just because the under bidders stopped doesn't mean the horse is only worth $75k. He may be worth LESS or MORE. It's just on that day, at that time, with those 25 buyers in attendance that he was went for $75k. Clearly I'll Have Another was worth more than $35k the day after Dennis O'Neill stole him from the OBS APR 2011 sale.

LRF bought Singletary for $5k, marked it up and the horse earned over $2m. West Point bought Awesome Gem for $200k, marked it up the next day to $400k and the horse earned $2.8m. Yes both outfits have losers, but so does Pegram, Jay Em Ess, etc. They all lose money, but you pray for the 5% that don't. LRF, and WP and others seem to hit that 5% mark.

Did he do a crooked deal at the sale I have no idea, highly doubt it. Thats not his thing, and sure not much room to make money on a 30K horse.. He did not have those buyers lined up, he took the horse back to the barn and people got in once he arrived and they could see the horse. I know how the sales work, you never know what is going on. But if you think the partnerships you mentioned are the best way to go, good luck to you, I hope it works out. There is a lot of luck involved no matter what, no doubt about that. You are most likely going to lose money in horses no matter what, but I guarantee you Pegram Jay Em Ess have a better bottom line than the outfits you mentioned. You quote Awesome Gem, Partners had a lot of fun, but when the dust setlled doubt they made enough for more than a ham sandwich. 13% of purses to the trainer, 10% to the jockey, Westpoint was taking 15% of the purses, that horse probably paid 500K in entry fees over the years and he was in training for 6 years. I believe now Westpoint quit taking out the cut of purses they were taking because people got so irritated with it. I have been lucky enough to have had a few big hits on nice horses over the years that have allowed me to recover the money I wasted on partnerships, I just think they make is 99.9% impossible for anyone to show a profit, except for them.

[White Hat]

I am looking into The White Hat Stud Farm which will form partnerships claiming 2k horses at Los Al and run them this summer at either Saratoga or Del Mar. Minimum investment is 25k. Please PM me if interested (serious inquiries only)

[Fredo]

I'm in.Will we all have matching sombreros ?

[Dodger89]

Pete Mo,

Pegram Jay Em Ess have a better bottom line than the outfits you mentioned

From what I understand both Pegram and Jay Em Ess are LRF partners. They buy shares in LRF horses.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. But if those guys, who clearly don't need LRF to buy horses, see value in a LRF marked up horse, why shouldn't we?

Petemo, you seem very smart. I'm sorry you wasted money in partnerships. I'm sure you also wasted money in non-partnerships. All things are not equal. Every horse at every track is for sale. You could buy Game on Dude right now for a price. What they paid for it, or what they have in a horse is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what you pay, on the day you buy it. You're right, always look for value. That is the key. But if Pegram and Jay Em Ess and I know many other active owners buy LRF shares, clearly they are finding horses other people want - and didn't find themselves at the time the purchase was made.