The Peter Miller story about his maiden-claiming score is the EXACT reason why people are leaving this game in droves.
I have no problem with 1st time starters competing in Special Weight races,as those races represent the best we have to offer.And wagers placed on horses aspiring to be the best are OK in my book.
HOWEVER,a 1st time starter running in a maiden-claimer,supposedly not good enough to run Special Weight,IS AN INSTRUMENT TO STEAL THE PUBLICS MONEY,NOTHING MORE!!! This kind of behaviour on Wall Street would warrant federal Prison time.Friends of mine who left this game years ago laugh at this exact thing:lambs going to the slaughter.
A solution proposed by many smart minds of our game: ANY first time in a maiden claimer runs for purse money only,with only 25% of horses in a race be 1st timers.
Even harness racing,the most disgustingly crooked game in American history,has horses qualify before they can run.
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Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
18 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Reallyquiet » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:29 pm
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Reallyquiet » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:34 pm
The more I think about it,after bragging about what he did,Miller must've mugged an 80-yr old woman for her social security check.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Andyc » Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:44 pm
Reallyquiet wrote:The Peter Miller story about his maiden-claiming score is the EXACT reason why people are leaving this game in droves.
I have no problem with 1st time starters competing in Special Weight races,as those races represent the best we have to offer.And wagers placed on horses aspiring to be the best are OK in my book.
HOWEVER,a 1st time starter running in a maiden-claimer,supposedly not good enough to run Special Weight,IS AN INSTRUMENT TO STEAL THE PUBLICS MONEY,NOTHING MORE!!! This kind of behaviour on Wall Street would warrant federal Prison time.Friends of mine who left this game years ago laugh at this exact thing:lambs going to the slaughter.
A solution proposed by many smart minds of our game: ANY first time in a maiden claimer runs for purse money only,with only 25% of horses in a race be 1st timers.
Even harness racing,the most disgustingly crooked game in American history,has horses qualify before they can run.
Silly me, I didn't know that a trainer needed to make a public statement regarding the ability of a first-time starter. How stupid would he have felt if the horse was claimed? From a bettor's standpoint why bet a race where you didn't know anything about the horses? You are not required to bet.
Sarcasm:the ability to insult idiots without them realizing it
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Reallyquiet » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:14 pm
Silly me, I didn't know that a trainer needed to make a public statement regarding the ability of a first-time starter. How stupid would he have felt if the horse was claimed? From a bettor's standpoint why bet a race where you didn't know anything about the horses? You are not required to bet.[/quote]
This argument is imbecilic on many levels. I never said trainer had to disclose how good his horse is.He can run in the race FOR PURSE ONLY.This way he still can win the purse,and possibly lose the horse.But for said trainer to be able to steal money from the public(money crossing stae lines making it a federal problem) makes insider traders on wall street look like choir boys.
This argument is imbecilic on many levels. I never said trainer had to disclose how good his horse is.He can run in the race FOR PURSE ONLY.This way he still can win the purse,and possibly lose the horse.But for said trainer to be able to steal money from the public(money crossing stae lines making it a federal problem) makes insider traders on wall street look like choir boys.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Reallyquiet » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Silly me, I didn't know that a trainer needed to make a public statement regarding the ability of a first-time starter. How stupid would he have felt if the horse was claimed? From a bettor's standpoint why bet a race where you didn't know anything about the horses? You are not required to bet.[/quote]
Since we're not "required" to bet,lets not stop there.If trainers want to cash big tickets lets let them drug their horses as much and selectively as they want.Im sure they'll cash big.
The future of this game is bleak.Without racino subsidization,racing would be extinct in about 20 states.People have better options than others basically stealing from them.
Since we're not "required" to bet,lets not stop there.If trainers want to cash big tickets lets let them drug their horses as much and selectively as they want.Im sure they'll cash big.
The future of this game is bleak.Without racino subsidization,racing would be extinct in about 20 states.People have better options than others basically stealing from them.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Kermit » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:37 pm
Reallyquiet wrote:Silly me, I didn't know that a trainer needed to make a public statement regarding the ability of a first-time starter. How stupid would he have felt if the horse was claimed? From a bettor's standpoint why bet a race where you didn't know anything about the horses? You are not required to bet.
Since we're not "required" to bet,lets not stop there.If trainers want to cash big tickets lets let them drug their horses as much and selectively as they want.Im sure they'll cash big.
The future of this game is bleak.Without racino subsidization,racing would be extinct in about 20 states.People have better options than others basically stealing from them.[/quote]
The horse has to pee in the bucket for tests after a win, NOT the trainer.
Being one who doesn't live or die on how FAST a workout is (without knowing exactly the trainer's instructions and how much the rider weighed and who timed it), I would have just put a + mark by the 6f workout because sore horses don't work that long.
Good on Miller. BTW, $30K at some tracks is their feature event. Not like he put him in an $8K claimer.
Thank God for the Federal Reserve. You can't have big government or big wars without them.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Clockerbob » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:26 pm
http://www.clockerbob.com/chapter3.html
Every trainer on the west coast toiled under the tall shadow of Charlie Whittingham. I never saw a horse trained by Whittingham break down during a workout, and Whittingham worked his horses a mile more often than any other trainer did. When the gate from the stable area to the racetrack was swung open for morning activities at 6 A.M., Whittingham had the first set of horses out on that firmly settled cool dirt surface.
Early one Friday morning, in Whittingham’s first set of horses working, a half-bay horse, whose sole visible marking was white under its left hind ankle, rolls a half. Now I’m clocking, seated on the steps on the tile apron directly under the finish line. Charlie always clocked from that area on the apron. Sometimes he would yell up to the official clockers in the press box, “What did you get (name of horse that worked) in?” and that was the primary way I could get the name of a horse whose workouts I liked. Cuban born trainer Laz Barrera would yell up to the official clockers in the press box later in the morning from the same spot, "What you get me fie-8?"
Another means of making a horse is writing down in your notebook the physical markings of that horse. A Charlie Whittingham half-bay with a white marking under his left hind ankle that worked a half in 46-2 would be scribbled into a clocker’s notebook this way: “CW ½ LHU 46-2.”
Even without white markings, there are several other ways to identify a horse. For instance, sometimes a clocker could identify which trainer worked a horse by its saddle towel. Whittingham used a white saddle towel. Laz Barrera used a bright orange saddle towel. The time of the morning that a horse worked was also significant. Whittingham was the earliest, while Laz later. Whittingham used pretty young female exercise riders. Laz employed orange-capped Hispanic male exercise riders. The color of an exercise rider’s cap was another sign. The rigging around the thoroughbred’s head was a giveaway. A D. Wayne Lukas worker always flew his trademark white rigging around his head.
Finally, you used binoculars to scan the field of trainers on the apron or seated on their ponies to see which trainer was looking at the face of his stopwatch. You had roughly 12 to 15 seconds to catch a trainer snapping his stopwatch after a horse from his barn crossed the finish line, since a trainer always clocked the “gallop-out,” that extra 1/8th from the end of a workout at the wire to the 7/8th pole.
love! Charlie didn’t ask the official clockers in the press box for a time on his half-bay with the white marking on his left hind ankle that had just floated by.
Charlie returned 45 minutes later to observe his second set of horses working. Meanwhile, I hadn’t seen a horse work anywhere near as brilliantly as his half-bay with white under his left hind ankle. It was the type of work that stuck in my craw. “Yo Charlie!” (I could say that because years ago when I first met Whittingham Apples introduced me) “What was the name of the bay with the left hind under that worked a half in your first set?” “What did you get him in?” Charlie asked. "46-2," I replied. He gave me the name. “You liked that one,” he said and bounced away.
A week passes and Gosden wins by a pole with a first time starter who pays $30.00. All the clockers are catching hell from their betting clients because not one clocker had pushed that Gosden’s maiden winner off of his workouts. Every clocker checks his back notes on the Gosden maiden winner, and concurs that Gosden’s maiden winner has repeatedly worked moderately.
Early the next morning, right after Whittingham’s first set has worked, Charlie yells up to the official clockers in the press box, "What did you get?" (he shouts the name of the half-bay with the white marking under his left hind ankle whose workout I liked last Friday, (CW ½ LHU 46- 2). Damn! I remember one bay working for Charlie in his first set, but it had no markings and didn’t float over the cool surface. So when Charlie’s first set passes within twenty feet of me to return to the barn area through the tunnel to the saddling paddock, I double-check the hind legs of the half-bay that had worked, and it has no markings!
"Yo Charlie!" Now, I have my head down, thumbing back in my notebook to the page with the start of last Friday’s workout session. I point to the scribbling in my notebook. “That bay that you just worked had no left hind under but you gave me that same name for a bay that had a left hind under.” Charlie replies, "The horse you’re looking for was the maiden for Gosden that won yesterday."
The windup is: Charlie tells me that some owners like to bet and if a trainer wants to keep the betting owners’ horses in his stable he has to set a horse up to not only win for the betting owner but at a price. Gosden, being British, folds his arms and says, “He had a big house payment to meet.”
Every week at every racetrack, there are a few diamond quality workouts hidden either by trainers for their owner’s betting pleasure or by clockers for their gambling clients. The general public is left barefoot.
Since Charlie started so early, after all his horses finished their morning activities, he would walk down and stand next to me about once a week, as the morning activity waned. Charlie said he did that to get away from all the people asking him questions. I’d hear him snap the stopwatch inside his trousers pocket on and off. Charlie would then take a peek at his stopwatch. He’d stand beside me about ten more minutes and only say something like “ The track’s getting a little cuppy.” and I would say,"Yep, Charlie the track is cuppy." Looking back, maybe he was clocking one of his horses working under Gosden’s exercise rider and saddle towel.
Every trainer on the west coast toiled under the tall shadow of Charlie Whittingham. I never saw a horse trained by Whittingham break down during a workout, and Whittingham worked his horses a mile more often than any other trainer did. When the gate from the stable area to the racetrack was swung open for morning activities at 6 A.M., Whittingham had the first set of horses out on that firmly settled cool dirt surface.
Early one Friday morning, in Whittingham’s first set of horses working, a half-bay horse, whose sole visible marking was white under its left hind ankle, rolls a half. Now I’m clocking, seated on the steps on the tile apron directly under the finish line. Charlie always clocked from that area on the apron. Sometimes he would yell up to the official clockers in the press box, “What did you get (name of horse that worked) in?” and that was the primary way I could get the name of a horse whose workouts I liked. Cuban born trainer Laz Barrera would yell up to the official clockers in the press box later in the morning from the same spot, "What you get me fie-8?"
Another means of making a horse is writing down in your notebook the physical markings of that horse. A Charlie Whittingham half-bay with a white marking under his left hind ankle that worked a half in 46-2 would be scribbled into a clocker’s notebook this way: “CW ½ LHU 46-2.”
Even without white markings, there are several other ways to identify a horse. For instance, sometimes a clocker could identify which trainer worked a horse by its saddle towel. Whittingham used a white saddle towel. Laz Barrera used a bright orange saddle towel. The time of the morning that a horse worked was also significant. Whittingham was the earliest, while Laz later. Whittingham used pretty young female exercise riders. Laz employed orange-capped Hispanic male exercise riders. The color of an exercise rider’s cap was another sign. The rigging around the thoroughbred’s head was a giveaway. A D. Wayne Lukas worker always flew his trademark white rigging around his head.
Finally, you used binoculars to scan the field of trainers on the apron or seated on their ponies to see which trainer was looking at the face of his stopwatch. You had roughly 12 to 15 seconds to catch a trainer snapping his stopwatch after a horse from his barn crossed the finish line, since a trainer always clocked the “gallop-out,” that extra 1/8th from the end of a workout at the wire to the 7/8th pole.
love! Charlie didn’t ask the official clockers in the press box for a time on his half-bay with the white marking on his left hind ankle that had just floated by.
Charlie returned 45 minutes later to observe his second set of horses working. Meanwhile, I hadn’t seen a horse work anywhere near as brilliantly as his half-bay with white under his left hind ankle. It was the type of work that stuck in my craw. “Yo Charlie!” (I could say that because years ago when I first met Whittingham Apples introduced me) “What was the name of the bay with the left hind under that worked a half in your first set?” “What did you get him in?” Charlie asked. "46-2," I replied. He gave me the name. “You liked that one,” he said and bounced away.
A week passes and Gosden wins by a pole with a first time starter who pays $30.00. All the clockers are catching hell from their betting clients because not one clocker had pushed that Gosden’s maiden winner off of his workouts. Every clocker checks his back notes on the Gosden maiden winner, and concurs that Gosden’s maiden winner has repeatedly worked moderately.
Early the next morning, right after Whittingham’s first set has worked, Charlie yells up to the official clockers in the press box, "What did you get?" (he shouts the name of the half-bay with the white marking under his left hind ankle whose workout I liked last Friday, (CW ½ LHU 46- 2). Damn! I remember one bay working for Charlie in his first set, but it had no markings and didn’t float over the cool surface. So when Charlie’s first set passes within twenty feet of me to return to the barn area through the tunnel to the saddling paddock, I double-check the hind legs of the half-bay that had worked, and it has no markings!
"Yo Charlie!" Now, I have my head down, thumbing back in my notebook to the page with the start of last Friday’s workout session. I point to the scribbling in my notebook. “That bay that you just worked had no left hind under but you gave me that same name for a bay that had a left hind under.” Charlie replies, "The horse you’re looking for was the maiden for Gosden that won yesterday."
The windup is: Charlie tells me that some owners like to bet and if a trainer wants to keep the betting owners’ horses in his stable he has to set a horse up to not only win for the betting owner but at a price. Gosden, being British, folds his arms and says, “He had a big house payment to meet.”
Every week at every racetrack, there are a few diamond quality workouts hidden either by trainers for their owner’s betting pleasure or by clockers for their gambling clients. The general public is left barefoot.
Since Charlie started so early, after all his horses finished their morning activities, he would walk down and stand next to me about once a week, as the morning activity waned. Charlie said he did that to get away from all the people asking him questions. I’d hear him snap the stopwatch inside his trousers pocket on and off. Charlie would then take a peek at his stopwatch. He’d stand beside me about ten more minutes and only say something like “ The track’s getting a little cuppy.” and I would say,"Yep, Charlie the track is cuppy." Looking back, maybe he was clocking one of his horses working under Gosden’s exercise rider and saddle towel.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Claimboxx » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:46 pm
Reallyquiet wrote:Silly me, I didn't know that a trainer needed to make a public statement regarding the ability of a first-time starter. How stupid would he have felt if the horse was claimed? From a bettor's standpoint why bet a race where you didn't know anything about the horses? You are not required to bet.
This argument is imbecilic on many levels. I never said trainer had to disclose how good his horse is.He can run in the race FOR PURSE ONLY.This way he still can win the purse,and possibly lose the horse.But for said trainer to be able to steal money from the public(money crossing stae lines making it a federal problem) makes insider traders on wall street look like choir boys.[/quote]
Reallyquiet, you are kidding here???? How is Andy's argument imbecilic??? You have a horse you purchased at auction, the trainer took his time with a horse that can run, he slowed the works down and the horse came out firing. Who did he deceive?? Maybe he didn't think the horse was straight maiden quality, but he thought he was better than a maiden $30K and he didn't want to expose him. Part of handicapping/gambling is figuring out a trainers motives and reacting to them... Miller hid the works, bet his money and reaped the rewards..
What if the horse lost??? What if the horse got claimed??? He took his chance and he won...
Last edited by Claimboxx on Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Andyc » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:50 pm
Reallyquiet wrote:
Since we're not "required" to bet,lets not stop there.If trainers want to cash big tickets lets let them drug their horses as much and selectively as they want.Im sure they'll cash big.
The future of this game is bleak.Without racino subsidization,racing would be extinct in about 20 states.People have better options than others basically stealing from them.
You are so incredibly naive.
Please explain how the trainer is "stealing". You could have bet on his horse and shared in this theft.
Handicappers who make real bets on the horses keep records of trainers and their patterns. Trainers trying to disguise their horse's ability has been going on since the very first horse race. I find that it enhances the game and doesn't hurt it.
Sarcasm:the ability to insult idiots without them realizing it
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Re: Nice hit?? reason #1,664 why are game is going down the tube
by Hollywoodmike » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:22 pm
"Seventy equine puzzles to take your worries away!" ...Roger Stein on his weekend radio shows.
Last edited by Hollywoodmike on Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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