RICK VIOLETTE ON LASIX

[Andyc]

Andy,Ive owned rougly 30-40 claimers over the last 10 years.All the trainers Ive used said this about water weight.Ive seen mares look very bloated(while in heat),and when they received lasix,they lost excess water,and looked positively shredded and striated muscle-wise.AG,we can debate how much it helps;I think it does somewhat.

I am not sure which side of the debate you are on. Are you for banning lasix and risking horses to EIPH or are you for lasix and the possible extra benefits that you mention?

[Fredo]

European horses...
don't live at the track in a small stall
many gallop thru the countryside on 'gallops' made for that purpose
most of the above is away from polluted-air cities
many more of them race on grass
most of them run races at a lot slower time than in speed-crazy America
the ones that are really bleeders come to America

It's not a secret, trainers here admit with a smile that they put their young horse on lasix 'just in case'.
Then they get to charge the owners with scoping, vitamin shots etc.

Why do we call them trainers? They are conditioners who's main responsibility is seeing that the horse doesn't starve to death and fighting with the tracks for stalls.

Sharp post keep em coming.

[Hollywoodmike]

European horses...
don't live at the track in a small stall
many gallop thru the countryside on 'gallops' made for that purpose
most of the above is away from polluted-air cities
many more of them race on grass
most of them run races at a lot slower time than in speed-crazy America
the ones that are really bleeders come to America

It's not a secret, trainers here admit with a smile that they put their young horse on lasix 'just in case'.
Then they get to charge the owners with scoping, vitamin shots etc.

Why do we call them trainers? They are conditioners who's main responsibility is seeing that the horse doesn't starve to death and fighting with the tracks for stalls.

Sharp post keep em coming.

Agree that the Euros are better at taking care of their horses than their North American counterparts.

[Vince P]

Andy, Serious question. Do you really think most trainers run all their horses on Lasix because they're all bleeders?

If so, please let me sell you some extra oil rich land I accumulated in Alaska this past year.

Vince P

See article posted by myself and AndyMays above. You would be negligent not to use lasix on your horses. Apparently you think it is better for a horse to have EIPH.

Negligent?

Negligent is when Lester tells you to play a 12-1 shot at Woodbine because "they have more winners there" and you don't and it comes in. That's negligence.

Again Andy I'll copy what I said in previous posts,

"For the record no one is saying they should eliminate Lasix entirely."

So those 50 some odd trainers/owners here in the US who decided to run their horses Lasix free are Negligent?

The European Racing commission is Negligent?

Most of the top trainers in the world racing overseas with the best horses are Negligent? Granted they can refuse to run because of the medication rules, but they're negligent for doing so?

Henry Cecil - trainer of the great Frankel is negligent because God Forbid, he ran Frankel without Lasix? After all, had you put a scope up Frankel's nose, I'm quite sure you would have found a trace of bleeding or a hint of EIPH somewhere after his races.

Strong feeling here is that Lasix is unnecessarily relied upon to "keep up with the Joneses" in the majority of cases rather than for medical purposes.

Wouldn't you agree?

Vince P

[Andyc]

Wouldn't you agree? Vince P

NO.

When would you advocate the use of lasix?

[Vince P]

Wouldn't you agree? Vince P

NO.

When would you advocate the use of lasix?

Great question and this the whole issue that needs to be determined.

I.e., when a horse bleeds noticeably/beyond a certain level or when a veterinarian decides "It's medically necessary" that your horse uses Lasix to run. Certainly not when a trainer requests it for the extra edge as is the case most often.

Vince P

[Andymays]

Vince P wrote:

Negligent?

Negligent is when Lester tells you to play a 12-1 shot at Woodbine because "they have more winners there" and you don't and it comes in. That's negligence.

Again Andy I'll copy what I said in previous posts,

"For the record no one is saying they should eliminate Lasix entirely."

So those 50 some odd trainers/owners here in the US who decided to run their horses Lasix free are Negligent?

The European Racing commission is Negligent?

Most of the top trainers in the world racing overseas with the best horses are Negligent? Granted they can refuse to run because of the medication rules, but they're negligent for doing so?

Henry Cecil - trainer of the great Frankel is negligent because God Forbid, he ran Frankel without Lasix? After all, had you put a scope up Frankel's nose, I'm quite sure you would have found a trace of bleeding or a hint of EIPH somewhere after his races.

Strong feeling here is that Lasix is unnecessarily relied upon to "keep up with the Joneses" in the majority of cases rather than for medical purposes.

Wouldn't you agree?

Vince P[/quote]
================================================================================================================

There are over 120 diuretics in existence besides lasix so they could be using another diuretic besides lasix. It IS used as a preventative measure. That's the same as Olympic Athletes that are allowed to use inhalers prior their performances. As a Gambler I'd rather bet on a horse using lasix as a preventative measure because that horse is less likely to bleed and run poorly.

[Andyc]

Great question and this the whole issue that needs to be determined.

I.e., when a horse bleeds noticeably/beyond a certain level or when a veterinarian decides "It's medically necessary" that your horse uses Lasix to run. Certainly not when a trainer requests it for the extra edge as is the case most often.

Vince P

Clearly I don't know the answers but based on the previous article posted it seemed to indicate that prevention of EIPH or minimization of EIPH is better than treating a serious condition after the fact.

If you knew that wearing a knee brace playing football would reduce your chance of knee injury by 50% would you wait until you blew out your knee to wear one?

[Claimboxx]

Want to eliminate Lasix??

Eliminate year round racing and have racetracks open on weekends only.. Have thoroughbred races run at a cantors pace, no sprints where they bust out of the gate at full speed throughout...

[Vince P]

Want to eliminate Lasix??

Eliminate year round racing and have racetracks open on weekends only.. Have thoroughbred races run at a cantors pace, no sprints where they bust out of the gate at full speed throughout...

Lol...obviously you're poking fun at European racing but I don't agree with you on two points:

1. Not positive that sprinting causes EIPH more so than route (cantering) races.
2. European race horses - even though most meets are only open weekends or a couple of days a week, run just as often as US based horses (who do get to run on Lasix).

Vince P